Dougie’s Monday mailbag (3 Kings rematches, Crawford’s P4P case, Canelo vs. the modern 168-lb. greats)
WHAT IF? 1980s AMERICAN celeb REMATCHES
good day Dougie,
i used to be thinking about the other day extraordinary fights in historical past that were almost made or have been scheduled to be made but by no means came into fruition. The Eighties got here into mind involving matchups between Sugar Ray Leonard, Marvin Hagler and Thomas Hearns that have been close to taking place, turned into expected to turn up but by no means did or were simply superb fights that might had been interesting to look the way it would have performed out.
four matchups between the three that are evoked are:
Leonard vs Hearns rematch at 147 in 1982 (earlier than Leonard retired because of the indifferent retina).
may things have gone differently for Hearns? Would Leonard get off to a much better, sooner start? Would the second superfight accurate the first one?
Leonard (the version that defeated Ayub Kalule in 1981) vs Hearns at 154.
Many consultants rank Hearns because the surest junior middleweight fighter ever but does he get previous Leonard at 154?
Leonard (the edition that beat Hagler) vs Hearns at 160?
My pondering stands out as the most fulfilling middleweight edition of Tommy (probably the one who confronted Hagler) could be a solid favorite over that version of Leonard, who became still ambitious but past his surest at one hundred sixty.
Hagler vs Hearns rematch at one hundred sixty in 1986.
I study that there changed into talk of a rematch going on in November 1986 but when Leonard got here out of retirement later in the year, Hagler grew to become all his consideration to securing that combat. in the event that they would have had a rematch, I’m curious if Hearns would have taken a unique approach against Hagler and tried to container extra, hold his distance, stick-and-stream and combat at a more slower pace. Or perhaps it wouldn’t have made a change and the undisputed middleweight champion can be too a great deal for him? Given the incontrovertible fact that Hagler was steadily displaying signs of decline after their fight in 1985, makes me trust Hearns had a great shot in the rematch.
What’s your ideas on these fights if they would have happened and who wins them? – James, Atlanta, GA
I might possibly be biased but I think Leonard would have stopped Hearns once again in the late rounds of a welterweight rematch (and perhaps this time he doesn’t ought to rally from behind on the scorecards). I’d choose Hearns to outpoint Leonard in shut and enjoyable fights at 154 and one hundred sixty pounds. i love Hagler over Hearns by using a late (perhaps come-from-behind) stoppage in a middleweight rematch.
Leonard vs Hearns rematch at 147 in 1982 (earlier than Leonard retired because of the detached retina). My hunch is that Leonard would’ve be better prepared for Hearns’ attain, pace and boxing means, but additionally extra confident in his potential to hurt the Hitman, of their return bout.
may things have long gone otherwise for Hearns? now not at welterweight. That’s simply my humble opinion.
Would Leonard get off to a far better, quicker start? I feel so.
Would the 2nd superfight suitable the first one? No. I don’t believe it could be as dramatic, which doesn’t suggest it would’ve been a different incredible welterweight showdown. The bar become set essentially impossibly excessive with their epic first come across.
Leonard (the version that defeated Ayub Kalule in 1981) vs Hearns at 154. I consider the junior middleweight version of Hearns had better legs and greater punch resistance. That little “further,” plus the hunch that 154 kilos is an “awkward”/“uncomfortable” weight for Leonard, is all Hearns must pull forward of his rival – on facets in a hotly contested distance fight.
Many specialists rank Hearns as the most suitable junior middleweight fighter ever but does he get past Leonard at 154? I’m a kind of “specialists,” and as a good deal as i love Sugar Ray, I don’t suppose he receives the job achieved vs. the Motor city Cobra above 147 kilos.
Leonard (the version that beat Hagler) vs Hearns at one hundred sixty? I consider the most desirable middleweight version of Hearns outpoints the highest quality middleweight edition of Leonard. The dwindled 168-pound edition of Hearns dropped Ray twice throughout their 1989 rematch and he should’ve obtained the official nod instead of a controversial draw.
Hagler vs Hearns rematch at a hundred and sixty in 1986. Hagler became slowing down by this time, plus his war with John Mugabi took a great deal out of him, so I suppose Hearns would really get off to a great start if he boxed a disciplined battle. youngsters, Hagler’s force and animosity, plus Hearns’ herbal/puncher’s inclination to slug it out, would ultimately draw the taller, rangier boxer into the variety of prolonged exchanges that would supply the defending champ the facet by way of the late rounds. I believe Hagler stops him late (specifically if the combat was scheduled for 15 rounds).
I read that there become talk of a rematch happening in November 1986 however when Leonard came out of retirement later in the yr, Hagler grew to become all his attention to securing that fight. You’re correct about there being speak of a rematch (Hearns turned into within the co-featured bout – vs. James Shuler – to Hagler’s defense towards Mugabi in March 1986 with a purpose to set it up), but you’re incorrect about Hagler turning all his consideration to Leonard when the celeb got here out of retirement. in keeping with Bob Arum, Hagler, who was ready to retire after the Mugabi bout, had to be talked into fighting Leonard (he became bitter towards the Sugar Man for teasing him with a superfight earlier within the decade and then retiring).
IS CRAWFORD really appropriate P4P player?
Wishing you and your family a happy and fit New yr! My first time contacting you, so i believed a extra formal salutation can be applicable.
looking on the Ring Pound-for-Pound scores, i want to remark above all on Terrence Crawford. he’s currently ranked third on the record and common consensus locations him in the top three pound for pound warring parties.
I think that a major factor in placing him within the precise P4P tier is his previous performances primarily at light-weight and junior welterweight. He has been campaigning roughly 2½ years at welterweight and has perhaps fought a precise 10 ranked welterweight once (I take into account that Egidijus Kavaliauskas might also were ranked 10th at the time they fought).
My query is: if Terrence doesn’t battle and beat a appropriate ten ranked (ideally a desirable 5 ranked) welterweight in 2021, should he still be ranked as some of the elite fighters in the sport? essentially. – Louis Discepola
first rate query (and thanks for ultimately writing in). I feel if Crawford goes an additional year with out fighting a revered/consensus ranked welterweight, he may drop a spot or two within the Ring’s pound-for-pound rankings. but it is dependent upon what the fighters ranked at the back of him – equivalent to Usyk, Spence and Lopez – do. If Usyk doesn’t get a shot at Anthony Joshua or combat a legit heavyweight contender, his No. four location (appropriate in the back of No. three-rated Crawford) may be in jeopardy. If Spence faces a different legit welterweight titleholder or contender (be it a large showdown with Pacquiao, a rematch with Porter, a grudgematch with Thurman or even defense against Ugas) and beats them convincingly, he might leapfrog both Usyk and Crawford.
Of course, the top-quality state of affairs would be for Crawford and Spence to eventually get it on, however we already recognize that’s a longshot for 2021 (notwithstanding Bud bolts from correct Rank through the autumn).
I believe that a major factor in placing him in the appropriate P4P tier is his past performances basically at lightweight and junior welterweight. That’s actually part of the equation, but I’ve heard members of the Ring rankings Panel, who except currently felt that Crawford deserved to be within the No. 1 spot, state that it’s the Nebraska native’s dominance against quite a lot of styles, as well as his versatility, that makes him beneficial of being the P4P King. They pointed to Canelo’s struggles with GGG and Inoue’s hard-fought victory over Donaire as the explanation why Crawford, who’s in no way come close to dropping, should be at the helm of the legendary rankings.
He has been campaigning roughly 2½ years at welterweight and has perhaps fought a proper 10 ranked welterweight once (I don’t forget that Egidijus Kavaliauskas may additionally had been ranked 10th on the time they fought). Crawford has confronted two Ring-rated opponents – Horn and Kavaliauskas – in his 5 welterweight bouts, and those two had been rated between No. 6-10. If he can’t get the large unification showdown with Spence, he needs to fight a Thurman, Porter, Ugas, Taylor, Ramirez or Prograis ASAP.
GOVERNING our bodies
chuffed New year. with a bit of luck 2021 is an improved one for each person but, as a battle fan, I consider pretty content about what I bought to see in 2020.
i might love you to follow up a bit on the impressive query currently from AndyT about the Ring belt and, by means of extension, the “loopy” belts awarded with the aid of the governing our bodies.
simply what do you see the real intention of the governing our bodies being? supply us your honest take on what goes on at the back of the scenes. For me, they present regulation and rating. They additionally sanction fights and award trinkets that support to sell those fights. If that puts a number of greater pounds in the kitty and generates pastime in the activity and opportunities for combatants, then they’re an outstanding component. If, youngsters, they get within the manner of fights being made then I feel we would all agree that they have got overlooked the bigger picture. The biggest crime is these fighters ranked totally inside a governing physique who then under no circumstances get the shot at the title that this ranking may still mandate (Dillian – I suggest you).
The Ring belt skill an awful lot to combat fans and, i am sure, to the few boxers who have the capacity to put on it in their profession. casting off the other belts youngsters would suppose like biting the hand that feeds. they are around to dwell but an honest dialog amongst the alphabet our bodies to rationalise the condition can be fresh.
retain fighting the respectable combat. stay secure.
One mythical Matchup for the road:
Froch vs Canelo at 168
Cheers. – Ryan
That’s a tricky mythical matchup to work out. I’m going to go together with Canelo by resolution in most jurisdictions (all over in North the us), keep for fundamental cities in England (London, Manchester, Nottingham, of route). It’s a hotly contested, VERY close fight, and intensely enjoyable.
just what do you see the proper purpose of the governing bodies being? supply us your sincere tackle what goes on at the back of the scenes. They’re corporations. Don’t be fooled by words like “association,” “council,” “federation” or “firm.” They exist to make funds, and they do. but that’s adequate. They cost the fighters and the promoters cash, but they additionally support deliver money to combatants and promotions. They aid carry popularity to televised battle playing cards, which is what networks desire from promoters; it’s a part of why they pay out a license charge. So promoters can pay for the travel and lodging of sanctioning body officials and opponents willingly give up a percentage of their purses (or their managers or promoters will once in a while pay for the “sanction”). Most fighter’s contracts comprise huge pay increases for after they combat for and win world titles.
For me, they offer regulation and rating. They additionally sanction fights and award trinkets that aid to promote these fights. They try this. I’m now not anti-sanctioning organization. I don’t view them a chance to The Ring championship (in reality, they the benchmarks of a fighter’s adventure to our world titles) or a complete scourge on boxing. they have got suggestions that aid the recreation. I respect that. The WBC has a bunch of effective laws, however the clear Boxing program is their Crown Jewel. I understand it’s no longer ideal but hats off to them and to VADA for at least addressing the discipline of superior PED testing. And hats off to the IBF for their 2nd day weigh-ins. I wish the sanctioning organization rankings had been enhanced and that i hope that greater of their mandatories had been in reality valuable. It drives me crazy when a good matchup (and title unification/Ring magazine championship) like Beterbiev vs. Bivol is held up because the IBF’s No. 1 contender is some general dude like Meng Fanlong. GTFOH.
If that puts a couple of more pounds in the kitty and generates activity in the activity and alternatives for combatants, then they’re a very good thing. Former 1980s middleweight contender Doug DeWitt as soon as observed concerning the WBO, which changed into belittled by the boxing media and fans at the time, “Say what you want in regards to the WBO, but I went from making $10,000 per fight to $one hundred,000 as the WBO champ.” (I’m paraphrasing right here, but you get the O.D. — common Dougie’s — element).
If, however, they get in the way of fights being made then I suppose we’d all agree that they have overpassed the larger graphic. They’ve been doing that considering the fact that i used to be a kid. I appreciated it when the significant bouts have been made regardless of their obligatory calls for – Hearns vs. Duran, Toney vs. McCallum, Hamed vs. Vazquez – however I’d also be frustrated when one of the crucial elite fighters had to vacate (or be stripped of) his title to ensure that what become alleged to BE a title unification showdown to happen (in these instances it turned into the WBA belt that needed to be moved apart).
The greatest crime is those opponents ranked extremely inside a governing body who then certainly not get the shot at the title that this rating may still mandate (Dillian – I mean you). Yeah, and bear in mind that the mandatory challenger had to pay a sanctioning payment to take part in a “title removal bout” or to hang an “interim,” “silver,” “gold” or common belt, which turned into supposed to lead to a fit with the holder of the “real” world title of that selected sanctioning firm.
The Ring belt potential a lot to combat fanatics and, i’m sure, to the few boxers who be ready to wear it of their profession. Some respect it greater than others, but I think about that all of them like the indisputable fact that we don’t charge them sanctioning charges or impose unworthy title challenges upon them. before i used to be Editor-In-Chief, even before I had anything else to do with the journal, I recognized The Ring Champ as the true champ.
casting off the other belts besides the fact that children would believe like biting the hand that feeds. I don’t are looking to try this. I suppose it’s particular when a fighter can unify three or all four important world titles (WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO). Being “undisputed” within the four-belt period is a different difference that I admire and rejoice. youngsters, I keep in mind where Eddie Hearn is coming from when he broadcasts that he won’t permit the WBO or their necessary challenger, Aleksandr Usyk, to jack them for thousands and thousands. (agree with this: the large four usually take three% of a fighter’s purse. 3% of $1 million is $30,000. So, do Google Joshua’s purses and do the mathematics. The Adonis changed into certain £46 million ($60 million) for his rematch with Andy Ruiz Jr. feel about the combined sanctioning charge for the IBF, WBA and WBO belts he holds for these fights (I don’t know what the IBO charges).
So, I get where Sir Eddie is coming from when he says he wishes Anthony Joshua to battle for the undisputed heavyweight championship vs. Tyson Fury, however would reasonably dump all of the alphabet belts than get held up through the WBO. The winner of Fury-Joshua is THE HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF the world even if or now not the alphabet bodies sanction the bout.
they are around to stay however a decent conversation amongst the alphabet bodies to rationalise the circumstance can be fresh. I agree. and that i’m right here for that conversation – with them, the fans and the boxing business.
CANELO VS. THE tremendous MIDDLEWEIGHT GODS
hi. long time reader and many others, and many others. genuinely believe you’re remarkable apart from if you happen to’re no longer? (P.S., You’re always great!) without doubt hope you and your family unit are stunning. Anyway….
simply received DAZN. So I watched the fight. Then needed to see what I got for £1.99. So simply watched the Canelo vs Smith effort. I didn’t think Smith changed into soooo dangerous. so that SMW deal. How does it go? I’ve received Joe Calzaghe using his respectable arms to beat Canelo off him and the usage of his damaged palms to do the same. Froch vs Canelo? Hmm beginning to trust in Canelo. but Froch had some thing. Ward vs Canelo? Which god wins? And would Canelo become bored of punching Henry Wharton?
PS Whose chin broke first: Canelo or Eubank?
Thanks. – Thomas
I think each Canelo’s and Eubank’s chins dangle out in that particular legendary matchup, and notwithstanding the Mexican star is a cost-effective puncher, I believe he’d outwork Eubank Sr. to an in depth UD. He would beat the breaks off of Wharton but he wouldn’t cease the video game Yorkshire man.
As I mentioned earlier during this mailbag column, I consider Canelo would do sufficient to narrowly outpoint The Cobra anywhere outside of England. i know Froch is an incredible f__king badass, however he struggled with Jean Pascal, Jermain Taylor and Mikkel Kessler, and whereas these three are greater guys and better athletes than Canelo, they aren’t as finished a fighter as the four-division titleholder.
I feel Calzaghe and Ward would outpoint their future fellow corridor of famer in aggressive fights.
email Fischer at [email protected]. follow him on Twitter and IG at @dougiefischer, and be a part of him, Tom Loeffler, coach Schwartz and friends by means of Tom’s or Dougie’s Periscope each Sunday.
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